Pound4poundireland’s November 22nd POUND FOR POUND top 10

1. Roman Gonzalez

2. Manny Pacquiao

3. Wladimir Klitschko

4. Sergey Kovalev

5. Gennady Golovkin

6. Timothy Bradley

7. Saul Alvarez

8. Guillermo Rigondeaux

9. Terence Crawford

10. Juan Francisco Estrada


  • 2 of boxing’s biggest stars collided, and Alvarez enters at 7th after a ‘passing of the torch’ win over Miguel Cotto, who exits.
  • Let’s hope we see a showdown for middleweight supremacy between Canelo & Golovkin as soon as possible.

14 thoughts on “Pound4poundireland’s November 22nd POUND FOR POUND top 10

  1. Cotto should retire and take Rigondeaux with him.

    But Miura-Vargas might be my FOTY. There’s still time for Lee-Saunders and Klit-Git to top it. 😉

    • Miura-Vargas was terrific, I hope we see a rematch.

      Cotto boxed well, in my opinion, but was too old & small to beat Canelo.

      He’ll have more success with careful matchmaking back at 154 & can still make a lot of money, even if he’s clearly never going to be successful at the elite level anymore. He made a staggering 15 million plus PPV upside this weekend, certainly a retirement payday should he so choose, but I’d be very surprised if he stopped now.

      Rigondeaux is one of my favourite boxers and I usually thoroughly enjoy his fights, but this one, like the Agbeko fight, was one of the most unwatchable contests of the year. It’s incredibly frustrating to watch him doing the bare minimum to outbox such a poor opponent.

      Only when in with a challenge like Donaire, does he show the full range of his skills…and, even then, many fans find their eyelids getting heavy.

      • It is the old problem of the ultra-skilled, isn’t it. Where to find people to make them rise to the occasion?

        Like Floyd, he is the master of an economical style — call it austerity boxing.

        GGG has a significant advantage going into nearly every fight, too. Yet he is so clearly a human shark that we can’t but watch with bloodlust waiting for him to strike. A maximalist to Rigondeaux’s minimalist.

        GGG-Canelo: fun one to see! Assuming you think Gennady would win in a challenging battle, who else do you see out there that might hold the edge over Alvarez?

      • Indeed, it’s been a particular problem for Rigo, who without TV money has been unable to lure a meaningful opponent into the ring in two years. Hopefully the Rocnation link-up will change that.

        Mayweather is a good comparison, but he never had a fight as boring as Rigo’s with Francisco and Agbeko.

        If only everyone had GGG’s Darwinian ruthlessness in the face of inferior foes.

        I think GGG crushes Canelo in an un-challenging squash match, but Canelo should have little problem establishing himself at 160 & there’s nobody else there who I’d favour over him. I think Canelo eventually fights GGG but not until September next year at the earliest.

        Worth noting that GGG and a relative novice Canelo sparred 4 1/2 years ago, and while reports differ about whether it was fairly competitive (Doug Fischer: http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/167465-gym-notes-alvarez-golovkin-worth-driving-up-a-mountain-to-see) or whether GGG beat him up (boxer Lamar Russ), GGG has said that Canelo was the best sparring of anybody he’s shared the gym-ring with.

  2. Thanks for your thoughts and for the Fischer link.

    My guess is Alvarez goes longer and fares better than did Lemieux, softening up Gennady’s body, maybe taking one or two megawatts off the lightning to carry the fight into the championship rounds. He’s bigger and stronger than in 2011, though no more fleet of foot, sadly for him in this hypothetical contest. He’s also learned to fear no one; boon *and* bane against this kind of terror.

    GGG’s at peak and has a nice window of 18-24 months for dominance. 2017 might be a good time for Canelo.

    Anticipation growing for the UK fights drawing near! Do you hear anything interesting about Andy Lee’s camp?

    Btw, we just watched this, think you’d enjoy it:

    • Thanks, will check that Herzog link out.

      Here is Kellerman on Rigo after Saturday, covering some of the ground we just discussed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itLOrpoU4Jc

      Indeed, the longer Canelo puts off the fight, the better for him, as he is still improving & will grow into 160. He’s shown balls with his matchmaking thus far (fighting the likes of Trout & Lara, when many thought he’d avoid them), so I’m optimistic that he fights GGG, hopefully in the 2nd half of next year.

      All is quiet from camps Lee & Saunders lately. I guess they’re tired of talking after the endless pressers due to the two postponements.

      David Haye’s comeback announced for January. Take it from me that this will likely end in a Wembley superfight with Anthony Joshua.

      • Enjoyed Kellerman. The other FightHype videos in the same discussion look good too (I caught the GGG/Hagler career frustration comparison — Max was in good form).

        Intriguing about Haye. Saw the Sky piece about Fury’s camp responding. I wonder if you think a Joshua-Fury collision might be down the road too if Fury becomes a kind of UK gatekeeper post-Klitschko. I suppose a good showing against Klit, in a close loss, might still set Fury up for an American date with Wilder.

        The Herzog-Demme talk is illuminating if sentimental, but not mawkish. It’s warm in the manner of a festschrift. An amusing role reversal occurs midway through when Herzog seeming to tire of praise reduces the humble Demme to blushing and stammering, lol. He says he’s never been as scared as when watching Silence of the Lambs, and then, deadpan, adds as a shot across the bow to anyone else who might try it, “Und you kant scare me easily.”

      • Yes, I watched them all and they’re enjoyable. Like Hagler, patience is required but GGG’s true megafight will come.

        Joshua-Fury (both Tyson, and his prodigious cousin Hughie, actually) is another inevitability, and potential Wembley-filler. Joshua-Whyte next month is his debut PPV headliner on this side of the world, and it will be the first of many, as he inevitably assumes the role of the face of British boxing.

        Even if he’s not half as good as the hype suggests, he’ll be good enough & connected enough to get fights at the top level and the interest they generate will be ‘Froch-Groves II-esque’.

        Haha sounds like classic Werner, will watch this soon.

  3. Tremendous job by Fury over the weekend. Shocking and thrilling. Easily one of my fights of the year, regardless of all the disparagement being heaped on the fight in conventional, dumbfounded circles.

    As you know I have opined Wlad has little time left. I don’t think that’s the story here precisely. He could still beat most of the division for another year or so, using the same dreary technique and absurd physical advantages. He would lose to Fury 7 times out of 10 because his size-based game is trumped by Fury’s speed and unorthodoxy (the other three times he might catch him).

    Kudos to Fury for a great plan, all the moreso for his cunning and daring. I’d like to see Fury-Wilder or Fury-Povetkin ASAP (I’ll pick Fury in the former but Povetkin in the latter). Apparently we must have a pointless repeat of the weekend first. The cyborg shall be tuned up in the lab, submerged in a tank of steroids, and then arise glistening and loaded with the 2.0 software lol.

    Enjoyed the analysis by Hatman:

    • This may not be my most articulate post, as I’m still in a state of “dumbfounded” shock haha.

      I respect your opinion, but I thought it was one of the worst fights of the year. But, of course, due to the significance of the contest, I was riveted throughout, and my jaw was on the floor at the end when the decision was confirmed.

      Probably the biggest major fight upset in recent years & a new era for the division has begun.

      I was also vocal that Wladimir showed signs of diminishment in his last two defences, but nobody predicted that he would be outboxed by Fury, nullified & out-Klitschko’d from the outside. The facsimile Klitschko style he displayed against Chisora and Hammer was shown to be superior to the original.

      Klitschko lacked Steward in the corner, who surely would have been giving him a ‘hairdryer treatment’ bollocking around the halfway mark.

      I’ll check out that Hatman video soon.

      A rematch clause was in the contract, and, if exercised, I don’t view a return as pointless because I can see this result being reversed, although Fury would enter favourite.

      Whatever happens, Klitschko has had a great Hall of Fame career, recovering incredibly well from his early career setbacks, but this loss hurts him in terms of his all-time placing (esp., as you say, because it came the first time he faced a fellow giant with decent skills). The truth is that he provides a tough fight for almost anybody to ever lace them up.

      The night belonged to Fury, who did it his way. Hats off for shocking the world.

      Ireland can also claim him due to his heritage, which I guess creates a link all the way back to John L. Sullivan 😉

      P.S. DeGale-Bute from the weekend is also worth a watch. Quality fight, and DeGale pushed very hard by a resurgent veteran.

      • Cheers for DeGale-Bute tip. Will see it.

        The Fury win may not have been pretty but it is one rich for analysis.

        As you say, Manny would have popped a vein. He’d have seen his blueprint, ironclad against the planet for more than a decade, coming undone.

        The fact smaller men with top skills like Povetkin couldn’t do what Fury did says much. Total dominance with the jab, one-two and clutch-and-lean was good for business, but it led to a poverty of imagination in Wlad. Late in the fight, far behind and being humiliated, his desperation is put on display when he starts clutching and trying to lean on Fury. The bag of tricks is empty. It’s raw atavism.

        More desperation followed. The vicious head-butt of Fury went unremarked by Tony Weeks, a ref I have never rated.

        Hard to blame Wlad or Steward for this one: the blueprint did not envision a fast, mobile giant getting out of the way of the main arsenal and closing distance too rapidly for Wlad to handle.

        Fury makes the division look positively up for grabs — very exciting. I enjoy his sarcasm and antics too.

        Let’s hope for a repeat outcome because Wlad cyborging on for another ageless half a decade is too grim to contemplate. Let him go off to enjoy his beautiful chippy, revel in his loot, despoil Ukraine with the family’s CIA pals, etc. If he needs a feel-good retirement party, there’s always you-know-who, newly minted as a rapper too. Turn up your speakers at your own peril:


        (“Lost on a decision / But I still had this vision” hahaha)

      • I completely agree. Klitschko looked lost and bereft of a plan B, especially in the late rounds, and didn’t show the adaptability to stop the fight slipping away from him. When he should have been going all out for the knockout, he jabbed tentatively and grabbed, and when he finally unloaded in the 12th, it was too little, too late.

        Septic refereeing from Weeks, totally ignoring Wlad’s best Victor Ortiz impression. I’ll be criticizing him appropriately in my upcoming ‘Judging the Judges’ segment.

        The rematch is confirmed, so we’ll be waiting until May or June for the answer to the question of if the Klitschko era is over for good. In the meantime, political wrangling means that Fury will likely be vacating at least one of his belts, leaving the ordinary Vyacheslav Glazkov to fight someone like Charles Martin for a dubious claim to heavyweight supremacy. Time for a fractured mess at the top of the tree, although Fury will remain undisputed king to the knowledgeable fan.

        Haha! Briggs is completely shot as a fighter (and almost certainly bulked up to near bursting point with the aid of PEDs), but a guilty pleasure of mine. I have his surprisingly entertaining Super Mario-ripoff game on my Android phone. Hilarious attempt at rap, thanks for sharing.

  4. Lol @ best Ortiz imitation. Like “septic refereeing” too.

    I must see the Briggs Super Mario app. You’ve reminded me of this delicious parody:

    • It’s surprisingly entertaining! My high score is 934 😉

      Haha “septic” is a creative adjective I’ve picked up from a friend. It certainly applies in this case.

      I was pleased to see Jacobs knock out Quillin in double quick time this weekend. Joshua-Whyte & Eubank-O’Sullivan are of interest next Saturday. Both have watchable, but unspectacular (hence why I won’t be posting them here), ‘The Gloves are Off’ segments, which you’ll likely be able to find on youtube.

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